The Vice Chair is leaving: ‘I look at myself quite gently’

The last few hours have come. How do you feel?

“A bit melancholic. I have worked at TU Delft for 36 years, moving up the ladder. I will continue working as a teacher at Applied Sciences for the next 13 months until my pension, but that is more behind the scenes. Over the last few days, I was constantly approached by people who were very friendly and had the best of intentions, and who thanked me for the collaboration. But it makes you feel that the end is very close. My agenda was far emptier, especially in the last week. There were gaps. That was a new experience.”

Are you looking forward to a less full agenda?

“Yes, definitely. What I am leaving behind is a certain lifestyle. My days were always full, from morning till night. You look at your agenda and you know what you need to do. It sounds strange given that it is really busy, but it is a kind of passivity. I reduced the number of hours I worked significantly a year ago. I can’t deal with it anymore, and this is why I am stopping entirely.”

Why did it not work to continue?

“After the Christmas holidays two years ago, I came back tired. It got worse and worse. I developed health problems and lost a kilo a month. My daughter is a doctor and she advised me to go to the hospital as it was not a healthy situation. You then go through the medical mill, but they could not find anything. They recommended that I start by working two hours. But that is impossible in this job. They then said that I needed to make my own decisions, but that if I would lose weight again, I should return. My weight is a good indicator.”

‘The physical problems were actually a blessing in disguise’

Maybe it is simply human to not do this work for years.

“That’s why I don’t look at it negatively. But I would have preferred to have made my own decisions instead of having it decided for me.”

Did you take the decision to stop too late?

“If I could do it over, I would have done exactly the same thing. I cannot live with the thought that I should have been preoccupied with what could possibly come. I will see what happens. The physical problems were actually a blessing in disguise. This is why I now really do have to stop.”

What will you do in your free time?

“You could say that I had one big hobby over the years, and that was TU Delft. I have to think about what I want to do in the evenings. I write children’s books now and then, mostly for my grandchildren. They’re no big deal, you know. You can publish them yourself on a website.

One of them is called ‘Briefje uit het verleden’ (a letter from the past), and is about two children who travel in a time machine in the Oude Kerk in Delft and go back 400 years in time. Another one is about my granddaughter. She is 10 years old and drew the illustrations while I read aloud to her. She is the oldest of my four grandchildren. The youngest is only five weeks old. They all live in England, where by coincidence my daughters ended up living after they graduated. I would like to visit them more often.”

‘What else can you ask of yourself other than that you are approaching your own ceiling?

Going back to 2018 when you started as an administrator, would you say you have  changed?

“I see that it is harder for this generation of students than for those in previous generations. This is a hard time to live if you are young. What I see is that the current generation, which has been around for 20 years or so, experience a lot of problems with the pressure from society which they can hardly escape. They are all working on building their CVs. When I was at university, nobody talked about this. They experience problems with the freedom of choice and the fear of missing out. We can say that they should not make things difficult, but it’s not that simple. I have started to see this more clearly.”

In interviews dating back to your early Board years, you often put the emphasis on goals.

“I ask this of all students, and you should not confuse it will excellence. If you prioritise excellence, you are saying to 95% of the students that they don’t matter. I believe that a student who works hard and gets a six should walk around with a big smile. What else can you ask of yourself other than that you are approaching your own ceiling?

I look the same way at someone who easily gets a 7.5 and has not done anything for that. Can they be a little more ambitious? My message to young people is that they need to understand what the Netherlands does for them. They do not have to work – how good is that? So use this opportunity.”

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In terms of student well-being, the Student Council members say that you feel for students. Do you see yourself as an empathetic man?

“Yes, I do. If you take on a board position, you need to be able to step away from your own experiences. But that said, it is not that I shed tears with everyone. You have to be able to be a little bit normative. There is a certain standard, and if you do not reach it, sorry, but you will not get your diploma.

‘I find it hard to stand on the sidelines’

But not all development opportunities are embedded in the curricula. If you want to devote yourself to rugby or ballet, be my guest. This is why I do not support the long-term study penalty. If you have a delay in your studies, you need to be able to explain why. The only wrong answer is drinking beer, eating chips and watching Netflix for hours. Everything else is fine, as long as they do it passionately. The level does not need to be very high.”

There are other subjects that you can be very strong about, such as things like extra money for students who serve a board year. Where does that tenacity come from?

“It is a trap to think that every extra thing that you do should be paid for by someone else. I remind students that all the money that we hand out is tax payers’ money. It is given by other people. I need to explain to them why we pay for a social association.”

You have taught a subject for first years at Applied Physics every year. Now that you are leaving, you will still teach for a while. You will even teach more subjects. Why did you continue giving lessons on top of your Board duties?

“The official reason is so that I could retain a feeling for education, the students, the first years. The real reason is that I very much enjoy it. My preference is to teach first years. You can help these young people move to the next phase of their lives.

In my opening lecture, I always say to them that they are allowed to enjoy themselves here. I really enjoy it too. They have just moved on from secondary school where certain behaviours are the norm. Here, you can enjoy yourselves, you can sit up straight in the first row, and you can interrupt me with questions. Please do!”

When you took office in 2018, TU Delft was planning to grow to no more than 25,000 students. Last year, the Executive Board raised this to 40,000 students and to expand to Rotterdam. What changed in that intervening period?

“It is not as great a turnaround as it appears. The 25,000 still applies and that is TU Delft’s capacity. For years we grew by 900 students a year and could not come up with a way to limit the flow without taking rigorous measures such as numerus fixus. At the same time, it became clear in around 2020 that there was a huge shortage of technically educated people. We were approached by industry to do something about this. We could not do anything in Delft, but we could in Rotterdam.”

‘People underestimate the mountain of work that we have to do’

You thought up this plan, but are not going to carry it out. Can you let go of your Board role?

“My pension starts in 13 months’ time so I would have been gone quickly anyway. The hard thing about letting go is that I have an idea of how things should be done. Rotterdam should not be a copy of what we do at TU Delft. Other people are taking on that role and are taking decisions. I find it hard to stand on the sidelines. But if it keeps me awake at night, that is my problem.”

After the Inspectorate of Education wrote about malpractices and mismanagement at TU Delft in March, a tempestuous period followed. Leaving then, or even now, can be seen as leaving your responsibility behind. Did you have a voice in your head that said that now is not the right time to leave?

“Yes, I did. I had wanted to stop earlier for health reasons. But that was impossible. There was so very much to do. People underestimate the mountain of work that we have to do. I put off making the decision public. When I finally announced in a vedeo that I was going to have to stop, I was surprised to receive a lot of positive reactions. There were a lot of thank yous, and few negative comments.”

Did you want to stay to manage the improvement of the social safety?

“Yes, but not only for this issue. I wanted to complete my whole tenure as I enjoy it and think it is important. Well, truth be told it’s not always enjoyable. But that is not what it is about. It is a misconception that everything in life has to be enjoyable. You should concentrate on doing the things that you believe in and that are useful.”

Are you leaving TU Delft better than when you started as a Board member?

“Can you say that of yourself? I think so, on a few issues. We are much more aware that the study period is a journey and that the environment for students is important. The pressure on the city has vastly improved too. We discuss what we want to achieve with our students a lot more. We talk about our duty of care for them, what they can expect from us, and when we have to say that there is limit to what TU Delft can do.”

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What had you wanted to do differently?

“That is a question of conscience, and with hindsight of course. Covid was not on my list and I had wanted to be further down the road of creating more rest and space in the curricula. But two years of my time were taken up with other matters.”

And if you look at yourself instead of looking at external circumstances?

“I look at myself quite gently. Of course there are things that happened, but I do not think that there are major issues which I did not handle well or did not come back to. I cannot really remember exactly what they are. But it’s not only about me, that really is an overestimation of my role. It is a misconception that TU Delft is kept going by three Board members.”

‘I think it is a shame that people have the feeling that they cannot say everything to administrators’

But you do have the final responsibility.

“A lot of things happen here that I am not aware of. TU Delft is a decentralised organisation. It does not belong to the management, but to the people.”

What have you shared with your interim successor, Hans Hellendoorn?

“A whole list. I emphasised that he continue with the idea that education is the academic staff’s, the teachers’, domain. We do everything together. I do little management in this area. I believe that if you do do so, you will reduce the quality. If you try to bring people along, to do things together, address them on their responsibility, and give them the space to make things happen, the quality will be a lot higher.”

What qualities should your definitive successor share with you?

“The emphasis is on education. I believe that TU Delft does this better than institutions where research and education are brought together in the rector’s job. This gives a lot of weight to the research side at the cost of the education side. This is better in our model (research at TU Delft is included in the rector’s portfolio and education in that of the vice rector, Eds.). A rector whose portfolio includes education cannot enter into so many discussions with the Student Council as I was able to.”

And what not?

“A clear, fast decision would be good at some points in time. I look for consensus as I think it is important to have the support of people. To me, this is very valuable. If we talk to each other, you may disagree with my idea entirely and say this. The only thing I hope for is that you remain polite. If you are so passionate and show this, that’s fine. This is part of the work of passionate people.”

Can it be the other way round too? Can you too show that you are passionate about something?

“Yes, that’s the point. It is such a shame that people have the feeling that they cannot say everything to the administrators. I understand that this is because of the hierarchy, but how can I respond and adjust my thinking if you do not say anything? Then I would just be looking right through you. Give me a kick once in a while.”